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What's the bet you have a dirty mesh pick up, you will need to remove the sender unit from the tank to clean.

Has happened to me when my cars have been sitting for a while, the petrol goes "off" and can turn into a "jelly" like state covering the pick up mesh.

Let us know how you get on.

It will be the mesh pickup filter. They can look fine but there a very fine mesh. Take it out let the fuel evaporate of it and see if you can blow through it with your mouth, bet you cant! I ran a fuel injection business, Electronic Automotive in Melb for 27 years and this was a very common problem and not just for cordias you will need to replace the pick up filter. The gold relays used to play up too due to dry solder joints internally but it wont cause the pump to buzz from cavitation. Cheers Tim

Fuel filter was changed not long ago when I replaced the pump last time.

I am going to check the voltage to the pump whilst running , alternator is charging fine and the battery tests up fine.

I believe its a fuel pressure related issue as when you squeeze the main pressure line going into the throttle body the pressure to squeeze the line varies from when its running fine to when it starts to stumble.

What is the easiest way to check the fuel pressure , is the allen key headed plug in the back of the throttle body removable for this purpose ?

AFM checks out fine , no smoke and turbo is perfect.

Hi guys , I have a AB Cordia turbo which I have bought new in 1985. It has sat in the garage most of its life and now only comes out on sunny Sundays. About 2 years ago the original fuel pump failed and would not operate at all. It had power would just not run.I couldnt get a original so I purchased a replacement pump which fitted very much the same as the original. It was ok for about 12 months , probably only done about 100 kms,then one day I was out driving and when I stopped I could hear the pump making quite a loud buzzing noise,it actually sounded like it was cavitating (sucking air) I got home pulled the pump out and all the suction lines etc and checked them for any signs of cracks etc . At the same time I didnt want to risk the pump so I purchased another pump but a different brand to fit back where the original pump is fitted. I have since done about 150 kms and when I was out yesterday it was performing well under acceleration etc. I stopped on the side of the road for a while and once again heard the dreaded fuel pump buzzing. I took off and it coughed a little and was then ok .Further up the road it started to get worse as if it was running out of fuel but at this stage still has about half a tank.It progressively got worse on the way home stopping a number of times.By the time I got home it would hardly run . So I put it away as I needed to go out. This afternoon I got it back out again and was running fine. I ran the car for about 1/2 to 3/4 hour and it was perfect then all of a sudden the pump started making the buzzing noise again and then started missing just like running out of fuel again. I thought it may have been a fuel pressure regulator problem so I clamped off the return line to possibly increase the fuel pressure but it made no difference at all.It sounds like the fuel pump again but cant believe that I would have so many issues with brand new pumps.If I squeeze the flexible fuel pressure line with my fingers I can feel the fuel pulsing through the line when its playing up.I just want it reliable when I go out for a drive.Has anybody else has similiar issues or any ideas what it could be besides the pump.By the way I have also filled the tank right up just in case so I know its definetely got a good fuel supply.Could it possibly be a voltage drop to the pump causing it not to pump enough fuel ? Anyone with any ideas more than welcome. Thanks Darren

I'm starting to think it's an injector issue, if the injector won't supply fuel when HOT this will cause stumbling, the issue will go away when cold, had this happen before but the boost gauge was reading negative manifold vacuum at the dot.

Injector "error" will not show on a diagnostic or error code reader.

Another question: Is your throttle body clean or is it gunky covered in fuel residue?

The lemon seal between the throttle plate and body can "seep" air if defective.

Post a pic of your engine bay.

Author:	Skier1 [ 07 Mar 2016, 20:50 ]
Post subject:	AB Fuel issue
Hi guys , I have a AB Cordia turbo which I have bought new in 1985. It has sat in the garage most of its life and now only comes out on sunny Sundays. About 2 years ago the original fuel pump failed and would not operate at all. It had power would just not run.I couldnt get a original so I purchased a replacement pump which fitted very much the same as the original. It was ok for about 12 months , probably only done about 100 kms,then one day I was out driving and when I stopped I could hear the pump making quite a loud buzzing noise,it actually sounded like it was cavitating (sucking air) I got home pulled the pump out and all the suction lines etc and checked them for any signs of cracks etc . At the same time I didnt want to risk the pump so I purchased another pump but a different brand to fit back where the original pump is fitted. I have since done about 150 kms and when I was out yesterday it was performing well under acceleration etc. I stopped on the side of the road for a while and once again heard the dreaded fuel pump buzzing. I took off and it coughed a little and was then ok .Further up the road it started to get worse as if it was running out of fuel but at this stage still has about half a tank.It progressively got worse on the way home stopping a number of times.By the time I got home it would hardly run . So I put it away as I needed to go out. This afternoon I got it back out again and was running fine. I ran the car for about 1/2 to 3/4 hour and it was perfect then all of a sudden the pump started making the buzzing noise again and then started missing just like running out of fuel again. I thought it may have been a fuel pressure regulator problem so I clamped off the return line to possibly increase the fuel pressure but it made no difference at all.It sounds like the fuel pump again but cant believe that I would have so many issues with brand new pumps.If I squeeze the flexible fuel pressure line with my fingers I can feel the fuel pulsing through the line when its playing up.I just want it reliable when I go out for a drive.Has anybody else has similiar issues or any ideas what it could be besides the pump.By the way I have also filled the tank right up just in case so I know its definetely got a good fuel supply.Could it possibly be a voltage drop to the pump causing it not to pump enough fuel ? Anyone with any ideas more than welcome. Thanks Darren

Author:	Bitza [ 08 Mar 2016, 12:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
What's the bet you have a dirty mesh pick up, you will need to remove the sender unit from the tank to clean. Has happened to me when my cars have been sitting for a while, the petrol goes "off" and can turn into a "jelly" like state covering the pick up mesh. Let us know how you get on.

Author:	Skier1 [ 08 Mar 2016, 15:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Bitza wrote: What's the bet you have a dirty mesh pick up, you will need to remove the sender unit from the tank to clean. Has happened to me when my cars have been sitting for a while, the petrol goes "off" and can turn into a "jelly" like state covering the pick up mesh. Let us know how you get on. Hi there, the mesh is as clean as a whistle nothing at all on it. All of the pick up lines look to be crack free and are in good condition. The car also runs fine for about 3/4 of an hour and then starts to play up.

Author:	Bitza [ 08 Mar 2016, 16:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Front fuel filter changed? This also could be electrical, your main control relay MAY have dirty points, your alternator may not be giving 14.3 volts to the battery, could have a dead cell in your battery, etc etc. Have you checked the voltage at the pump when this happens? You can inspect the pump from the front inspection point on the wiring harness (above the brake booster) Could also be a faulty AFM, had this happen over the years, car runs, idles for a while starts to stumble and smoke (mainly due to the turbo has stopped spinning, buggered) after about 30 mins. Check your turbo for shaft play. Make yourself an ECU error checker just to be sure.

Author:	Skier1 [ 09 Mar 2016, 22:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Fuel filter was changed not long ago when I replaced the pump last time. I am going to check the voltage to the pump whilst running , alternator is charging fine and the battery tests up fine. I believe its a fuel pressure related issue as when you squeeze the main pressure line going into the throttle body the pressure to squeeze the line varies from when its running fine to when it starts to stumble. What is the easiest way to check the fuel pressure , is the allen key headed plug in the back of the throttle body removable for this purpose ? AFM checks out fine , no smoke and turbo is perfect.

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AB Fuel issue https://www.cordiapower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17916	Page 1 of 1

Author:	TheChosen1 [ 09 Mar 2016, 23:04 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
1. Replace ECI control relay: Gold metal box near ECU. See if this issue re-occurs, if not, problem solved. 2. Manually Connect 12 volts direct to pump and see if it works without hiccups. If its pumping 100% and hard, looks like pump is A+. 3. Check black square plug in boot floor, see if its loose or damaged.

Author:	Timbo [ 10 Mar 2016, 15:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
It will be the mesh pickup filter. They can look fine but there a very fine mesh. Take it out let the fuel evaporate of it and see if you can blow through it with your mouth, bet you cant! I ran a fuel injection business, Electronic Automotive in Melb for 27 years and this was a very common problem and not just for cordias you will need to replace the pick up filter. The gold relays used to play up too due to dry solder joints internally but it wont cause the pump to buzz from cavitation. Cheers Tim

Author:	Skier1 [ 10 Mar 2016, 16:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Timbo wrote: It will be the mesh pickup filter. They can look fine but there a very fine mesh. Take it out let the fuel evaporate of it and see if you can blow through it with your mouth, bet you cant! I ran a fuel injection business, Electronic Automotive in Melb for 27 years and this was a very common problem and not just for cordias you will need to replace the pick up filter. The gold relays used to play up too due to dry solder joints internally but it wont cause the pump to buzz from cavitation. Cheers Tim Hi Timbo The screen has been removed and is as clean as a whistle , I would think if it was the screen it would be playing up continually especially at high RPM at full boost when most fuel would be required.As i said it is perfect for half hour and then plays up . Its just strange that 2 pumps have done the same thing , maybe im unlucky getting 2 faulty pumps ? by the way they are different brands to each other which rules out being a bad batch !!! Thanks for your input.

Author:	Bitza [ 10 Mar 2016, 16:09 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Skier1 wrote: Fuel filter was changed not long ago when I replaced the pump last time. I am going to check the voltage to the pump whilst running , alternator is charging fine and the battery tests up fine. I believe its a fuel pressure related issue as when you squeeze the main pressure line going into the throttle body the pressure to squeeze the line varies from when its running fine to when it starts to stumble. What is the easiest way to check the fuel pressure , is the allen key headed plug in the back of the throttle body removable for this purpose ? AFM checks out fine , no smoke and turbo is perfect. Best way to check fuel pressure is via the outlet on the fuel filter, you can buy adapters that will fit, you can remove the bung in the rear of the mixer but you will need to drill it out!

Author:	Timbo [ 10 Mar 2016, 17:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
replace the pickup filter and see how you go. The symptoms you describe are a text book case of an old pick up filter partially blocked with fine particles it will look fine i say this because i have seen it literally hundreds of times before having run a business that specialised in fault diagnosis on fuel injection systems 6 days a week for 27 years nothing but EFI problems !!!!!! to test the pressure you need a gauge and adaptors to suit but a dead giveaway is if the return fuel flow stops or slows down after running for the given time , 30 mins an hour , however long it takes to play up. if you squeeze the return line the feed line should swell up under the pressure increase if there is return flow. If a customer came into the shop with your complaint, which was common, we would put he fuel pressure and flow gauge on the car , if ok we would run the car under load on the chassis dyno until the airfuel ratio went lean or fuel flow/pressure dropped. The next step was to listen if there was the sound of the pump buzzing, cavitation, and if it was quiet we would measure the voltage at the pump while it was still running. On every occassion that the pump was noisey it was either the pump or the pickup . The fact that when the car first starts and runs great for the first 30 mins or so is also a dead giveaway that its the pickup filter. We would get cars sent to us on tow trucks that had this fault and when first put on the dyno we could do several full throttle power runs with no loss of fuel pressure and correct mixture but after a period of time the flow/airfuel ratio would slowly decline not trying to be a smart arse just trying to help a few years ago that advice would have cost you $250 lol last post good luck

Author:	Skier1 [ 10 Mar 2016, 21:06 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Hi Timbo, sounds like you know your stuff so I will definitely change out the filter first and see how I go. Thanks for your assistance with this , I really appreciate it. Can you still buy these filters knowing they are now over 30 years old ? Will let you know how I go. Thanks Darren

Author:	Bitza [ 10 Mar 2016, 21:21 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Darren, When this happens does the boost gauge move to the dot on the gauge?

Author:	coop1er [ 11 Mar 2016, 20:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Skier1 wrote: Hi guys , I have a AB Cordia turbo which I have bought new in 1985. It has sat in the garage most of its life and now only comes out on sunny Sundays. About 2 years ago the original fuel pump failed and would not operate at all. It had power would just not run.I couldnt get a original so I purchased a replacement pump which fitted very much the same as the original. It was ok for about 12 months , probably only done about 100 kms,then one day I was out driving and when I stopped I could hear the pump making quite a loud buzzing noise,it actually sounded like it was cavitating (sucking air) I got home pulled the pump out and all the suction lines etc and checked them for any signs of cracks etc . At the same time I didnt want to risk the pump so I purchased another pump but a different brand to fit back where the original pump is fitted. I have since done about 150 kms and when I was out yesterday it was performing well under acceleration etc. I stopped on the side of the road for a while and once again heard the dreaded fuel pump buzzing. I took off and it coughed a little and was then ok .Further up the road it started to get worse as if it was running out of fuel but at this stage still has about half a tank.It progressively got worse on the way home stopping a number of times.By the time I got home it would hardly run . So I put it away as I needed to go out. This afternoon I got it back out again and was running fine. I ran the car for about 1/2 to 3/4 hour and it was perfect then all of a sudden the pump started making the buzzing noise again and then started missing just like running out of fuel again. I thought it may have been a fuel pressure regulator problem so I clamped off the return line to possibly increase the fuel pressure but it made no difference at all.It sounds like the fuel pump again but cant believe that I would have so many issues with brand new pumps.If I squeeze the flexible fuel pressure line with my fingers I can feel the fuel pulsing through the line when its playing up.I just want it reliable when I go out for a drive.Has anybody else has similiar issues or any ideas what it could be besides the pump.By the way I have also filled the tank right up just in case so I know its definetely got a good fuel supply.Could it possibly be a voltage drop to the pump causing it not to pump enough fuel ? Anyone with any ideas more than welcome. Thanks Darren Hi Skier1. Are you sure that your replacement pumps are designed to lift the fuel out of the tank? I know that some pumps including many bosch ones, are not really happy doing this, they work better submerged or supplied with a fuel supply. Another thought I had is, on the inlet to the original pump, there is a tiny inline filter which can easily block. There are also a couple of these small filters over the top of the injectors at the throttle body. When it is playing up, you could check for fuel flow. Disconnect fuel return at throttle body and measure how much fuel you can catch in 30 seconds. If you do the math, you should be getting more than 100 litre per hour.

Author:	Bitza [ 11 Mar 2016, 20:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
I'm starting to think it's an injector issue, if the injector won't supply fuel when HOT this will cause stumbling, the issue will go away when cold, had this happen before but the boost gauge was reading negative manifold vacuum at the dot. Injector "error" will not show on a diagnostic or error code reader. Another question: Is your throttle body clean or is it gunky covered in fuel residue? The lemon seal between the throttle plate and body can "seep" air if defective. Post a pic of your engine bay.

Author:	slythr [ 04 Apr 2016, 01:30 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Looking forward to seeing your results, my van was doing the exact same thing. Good luck!

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Author:	Skier1 [ 11 Mar 2016, 22:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Bitza wrote: I'm starting to think it's an injector issue, if the injector won't supply fuel when HOT this will cause stumbling, the issue will go away when cold, had this happen before but the boost gauge was reading negative manifold vacuum at the dot. Injector "error" will not show on a diagnostic or error code reader. Another question: Is your throttle body clean or is it gunky covered in fuel residue? The lemon seal between the throttle plate and body can "seep" air if defective. Post a pic of your engine bay. The engine bay is like new, you could eat your lunch off it, definitely no signs of any fuel residue. I have taken out the pick up again and ordered a new screen . Just a process of elimination I guess . Thanks for all your ideas guys .

Author:	4cylturb [ 30 Mar 2016, 00:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Have you ever cleaned out the fuel tank? What you are describing happened to me. Car ran fine for a period of time, then started to hesitate and lose power. I would stop by the side of the road for a few minutes, restart and she would run fine. Exactly what Timbo described. What fixed it was cleaning out the tank. No good putting in a new pickup screen if your tank is corroded.

Author:	Skier1 [ 03 Apr 2016, 23:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Well I decided to start at the start and remove the fuel tank as it hasnt been out since new and after nearly 32 years was probably going to have some contamination in it. Took it out and drained it completely , not a lot of crap at all . So I hosed it out and found that there was a calcium type scale covering the inside of the tank. I ended up using CLR and throughly slushed it around for about 15 minutes. I then hosed it out again and dried out as completely as I could. I then flushed it again with 10 litres of metho and dried it out with compressed air and left to heat up in the sun for the day.The inside of the tank that I can see come up like new. The strainer was as clear as so I put the original back in after checking the flow etc. Refitted tank and fuel pump and fitted a new filter blowing fuel lines out before plumbing them up. I have put 20 litres of fuel into it and give it a run but I am yet to take it for a good drive to see how it is. What I am thinking is the calcium type substance is breaking off the walls of the tank and then floating around ,it is then blocking the strainer .When I stop the car the build up then drops off the strainer as the pump isnt pulling it up. I need to take it for a good run to see how it is but hopefully may have been the issue, will see how it goes and report back with my findings . Thanks for all you guys assistance.

Author:	Skier1 [ 10 Apr 2016, 19:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Well I took the car out today and done the most kilometres that it has done altogether in a long time (85) All went well , no problems at all . So I am putting it down to the calcium type build up in the fuel tank being sucked up by the pump blocking the strainer . When the pump wasnt working the build up would drop off the screen as everytime I checked the screen it was clear.So hopefully all good for the future. Thanks everybody for your input .

Author:	Bitza [ 10 Apr 2016, 20:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: AB Fuel issue
Excellent outcome Darren.